Crime in Toronto, Canada

Crime rates in Toronto, Canada

Level of crime
39.80 Low
Crime increasing in the past 3 years
59.61 Moderate
Worries home broken and things stolen
33.41 Low
Worries being mugged or robbed
33.41 Low
Worries car stolen
27.85 Low
Worries things from car stolen
38.21 Low
Worries attacked
33.46 Low
Worries being insulted
36.83 Low
Worries being subject to a physical attack because of your skin colour, ethnic origin or religion
22.43 Low
Problem people using or dealing drugs
49.41 Moderate
Problem property crimes such as vandalism and theft
43.60 Moderate
Problem violent crimes such as assault and armed robbery
39.42 Low
Problem corruption and bribery
33.04 Low

Safety in Toronto, Canada

Safety walking alone during daylight
80.53 Very High
Safety walking alone during night
58.99 Moderate

Contributors: 655

Last update: August 2019

These data are based on perceptions of visitors of this website in the past 3 years.

If the value is 0, it means it is perceived as very low, and if the value is 100, it means it is perceived as very high.

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59 Comments so far

#Tim on Aug 14, 2019 :
Toronto is not what it used to be. The smaller cities an hour from the centre are still good. Move out, save on housing and enjoy a higher standard of living with less crime.
#Anonymous on Aug 08, 2019 :
Raptors game = shooting during celebration Parade= shooting Yonge Dundas= spitting people with knives

during the day safe= at night, AVOID!
#Jamrs on Aug 06, 2019 :
When Trudeau senior encouraged Jamaicans to come to Toronto, the city changed and today, these low IQ migrants who fail miserably in school, whose role models are pimps, drug pushers and violent people, have ruined Toronto, as they have every other city in the world they have moved to. Even Tokyo has an issue with these low life people.
#Chris on Jul 29, 2019 :
Downtown Toronto has become very scary at night. Drugs everywhere now. I have lived in the downtown core since 1985. Today it is the worst it’s ever been. You cannot walk around anytime between 4pm and 5am.
#Anonymous on Jun 30, 2019 :
@Amin Probably because Torontorians also compare to other major cities close to them like Montreal and that they found it's safer there? Also there's articles that compare the murder rate among major Canadian cities, and I can assure you that Toronto isn't the safest, unless you only care about Toronto.
#Amin Karimi on Jun 29, 2019 :
I really do not know why is the reviews of Toronto and the people who have lived there has been so intense. This year Toronto has only had 29 homicides which is very low compared to only last year because of gun violence attacks which can happen anywhere. Economist Magazine Ranks Toronto as the 7th most livable city in the world. Youth and overall everyone always have fun downtown please change the Moderate rate to low when it comes to safety at night. In a sense crime and brutal things are everywhere.
#Amin on Jun 29, 2019 :
Toronto has been ranked in 2017 as the most livable and safest city by economist magazine crime rate is still 3.1 my l have lived here along with family and friends for over 20 years. Your surveys showed everything ranked low, why did you put safety of walking alone at night as moderate.
#Randy on Jun 23, 2019 :
Toronto is becoming more violent by the day. So so sad my beloved home. I feel it’s ruined.
#Mojo Rising on Jun 19, 2019 :
Level of crime: rising
Crime increasing in the past 3 years: nathan philips shooting
Worries home broken and things stolen: happened to me
Worries being mugged or robbed: happened to me
Worries attacked: I was attacked in bathurst
Worries being insulted: everyday
Worries being subject to a physical attack because of your skin colour, ethnic origin or religion
Problem people using or dealing drugs: people shooting up in TTC plain daylight
Problem property crimes such as vandalism and theft: common
Problem corruption and bribery:
#Anonymoose on Jun 18, 2019 :

Plain daylight, during a celebration parade. That says it all, and these statistics should be revised.
#Sheri on May 27, 2019 :
I try to visit Toronto as often as I can. I live in an isolated northern city and feel safer walking around downtown Toronto than the half hour walk to my work. Per capita, we have had the highest murder rate for more years in a row I hate to admit to. Violence is all around us. I have encountered only friendly, helpful people when in Toronto, gladly giving directions when approached. Servers in restaurants and salespeople in stores have been impressively friendly, unlike here, where you are made to feel as though you’re imposing when you have a question or given the impression they hate their job. If given the opportunity to move there tomorrow I would!
#Anonymous on May 24, 2019 :
Gangs have been increasing through the years. I have lived in Toronto for all my life. Things have not changed since I lived here. Always gang bangers and violence
#Beth on Mar 21, 2019 :
I was born and raised in Toronto for almost 40 years and can say I'm glad I moved out of that place. I lived in the suburbs and worked downtown and what I disliked the most is how rude people can be and as a female had to be often on guard. To me it's become a hostile place to live and have seen people get held up by knife point in broad daylight in the Yonge/Bloor area. Even seen fights in broad daylight eating at a restaurant. It's become a cold place to live where people are angry and have no time and you got to love the road rage on the 401 (highway).
#Torontonto on Dec 19, 2018 :
You are right Tom, we need hope, but instead they threw us dope.
Toronto is not the same city I saw ten years ago. There are more racial insults, angry people, and actual violence. The other day there was a gang beating up another in a streetcar near King and Bathurst, during daylight. The TTC guy locked himself up and could not care about his passengers any less.
The cops were fashionably late, and they only got one guy.
Awful city, no hope with the current rich and entitled administration at a city level, and total Provincial nightmare.
#Theo on Dec 07, 2018 :

If you live in the Core or Mid town it’s safe but people are RUDE!!!

West of Allen Road (with the exemption of Lower Etobicoke and Bloor West), and anything East of Don Mills is Rough!! Eglington / Weston Rd /Jane / Dixon/ Kipling / or any part of the East like East York, Scarborough and even the Danforth has become riddled with bad bad Crime! Downtown Toronto (below Bloor St) is very very unsafe. Drugs and Safe injection sites have destroyed the area.
#Mike on Nov 17, 2018 :
I was born and raised in Toronto.. 50 years now and have seen my share of crime.. Guns from the US is the big problem, stolen guns from gun owners etc. I saw guns over 30 years ago being smuggled in . Wake up police and government officials.. The prevalence of guns has grown over the years.. Police are doing their best to stop it but we need an outright ban of guns.. who cares if you like to shoot.. crap ..pick up a bow and arrow it takes more skill.. Guns crimes are for cowards !!! bottom line.. they don’t have the mental toughness or physical toughness to fix it with their mind or body.. just little kids inside an adult body that’s who is shooting ... kids ...that weigh 120 pounds.. no real courage to work everyday and really be a man.. just little boys with real guns instead of plastic toy ones.. losers!! Toronto is safe just don’t get involved with drug dealing or prostitution and you will be fine!!! It is safe.. by the way people in the bad neighbourhoods deserve the crimes they get. They are too cowardly to report it to police.. mothers and fathers enabling their little brat children to commit crimes and then saying “I didn’t know, he was such a good boy”” ..they knew.. unless you are blind .. you knew!!
#Anonymus on Oct 03, 2018 :
I was walking in a group in the annex (a very rich area) in broad daylight when some guy with a blackjack (a club) mugged me and my friend on Bedford Rd. I am 11 years old. I guess you are right Tom. Violence against kids and teens is common.
#Toronto Fan on Sep 07, 2018 :
To Anonymous: how many people in London have been drenched with water when the weather was -10C? How about set on fire? According to our Globe and Mail, "Statistics Canada does not track murders, assaults and sexual assaults committed against homeless people. But people who live on the street and their advocates say they happen frequently."
Everyday I hear of beatings, stabbings, assaults, and cars being stolen. Just because Toronto does not keep tabs on it, it does not mean it does not happen. Not only this, but I have actually seen people getting glassed on plain daylight, ran-over, and beaten up. Even though I or someone else reported it to the police, they looked the other way. Sorry to pop your bubble mate.
#Anonymous on Sep 05, 2018 :
I live in London UK and there on a weekly average 36 fatal stabings 106 non fatal stabings and 56 acid attacks if your home is not fort nox then that will get broken into at least a few times a year people do not take the elevators Up to their appartments because they will get mugged in them and at least 25 sexual assaults a week.

So compared to that Toronto sounds like a heaven.
#Anonymous on Aug 30, 2018 :
3 years ago at yonge and dundas, someone opened fire at a woman with a shotgun. I live in the capital of ontario and the crime problem is getting worse. Someone opend fire with a revolver in yorkdale mall and the police shut it down. Thankfully, no-one was injured or eliminated.
#Jim on Aug 28, 2018 :
Toronto will be on pace with Atlanta and Chicago in less then 10 years.
#Tom on Aug 26, 2018 :
You have to lock everything down in Toronto. People steal everything. Violence amongst kids have grown. Drug use has grown. Homelessness has grown. Desperation has grown. I encounter people living in their cars because they have no stable housing. Terror and violence fears have grown.

We need Hope.
#Unsafe Torontonian on Jul 13, 2018 :
The crime is up, the drug usage is up, I have seen people injecting drugs inside the TTC during daytime hours... there's an opioid crisis and cartels/mafias laundering money in RE. Politicians are mixed in the mess, so they won't do anything. Not enough people are speaking up.
#Anonymous on Jul 01, 2018 :
As of today Toronto has a higher per capita murder rate than New York City. We're finally beat them in something!
#Theodore on Jun 25, 2018 :
Toronto has Crime. It is getting worse.

Liberal Policies, anti police backlash and acceptability of every degenerate has created very unsafe areas of Toronto.
#Anonymous on Jun 22, 2018 :
A security guard got pepper sprayed at Yonge and Bloor. No clue if the person who pepper sprayed the guard got arrested, Stay particularity vigilant around Yonge and Dundas, Wellseley, and Bloor.
#Anonymous on Jun 22, 2018 :
I have lived in Toronto most of my life. There has been a general deterioration in safety and security as the city has gotten bigger without adequate infrastructure of all types put in place to manage it. A lot of statistics are misleading because for instance in the case of homicides, a gunshot victim is a lot more likely to survive in the ER than they were 30 to 40 years ago. Gun violence is way higher than it was then.

That said, the odds someone not involved in drugs and gangs in certain bad/slum neighbourhoods will get shot are very low. What is a lot more likely if you are downtown regularly is being the victim of a random robbery/assault. The downtown core has become visibly more dangerous in the past few years, including the downtown loop on the TTC (subway) as there seem to be an ever-increasing number of drugged-out aggressive crazies on the street and the police do nothing about it. The reduction in police numbers of about 600 in the past four years makes the situation worse, e.g a major centre like Yonge-Dundas Square has no permanent police patrol. Most Torontonians have their heads in the sand and the problem therefore will only become worse.
#Tayshawn on Apr 09, 2018 :
I live in Toronto and I can tell you that there is alot of gang violence and things of that sort outside of the downtown area. Areas like Jane strip, Eglinton west, Dixon, etobicoke as some examples are known to have a lot of gang violence.
#teshawn on Nov 04, 2017 :
I personally have never been to Toronto, but everything I have heard about it has been nothing but good. I'm planning on moving there within the next year.
#Anonymous on Oct 22, 2017 :
Everywhere has crime and some years better than others. If we had ponies wandering the streets and balloons tied to every post maybe it can calm people and deter them from an a violent thought.
#Paul on Oct 11, 2017 :
Toronto is one of the safest city in North America. Toronto isn't the safest city compare to Hong Kong, Taipei, and Tokyo Japan. But it's more diverse and less crowded than most Asian cities.
#torontoislove on Sep 04, 2017 :
Toronto is safe and ethnic diverse city. Racist people needs to stop bad talking about this city.
#Baba on Jul 30, 2017 :
I have lived in Toronto more than 40 years and I think it's still the best city in the world . If you mind your business and try to get along with people and try to understand that every body is different and we all have to RESPECT each other there is no problem . When you take everything personal then you have a problem so that's your problem isn't it ? Why make it TORONTO'S .
Why we have crime ? No Respect for other people
Why we have robberies ? No Respect for other people's property
#Anonymous on Mar 01, 2017 :
I was visiting and yeah
I was downtown (so beautiful)

Toronto is a safe and shiny place on most parts

The thing is theres slot of soliciting
#JP on Feb 06, 2017 :
Readers not familiar with Toronto may not know that shootings rose significantly in 2016 and it's been a hot topic of conversation around here. That's why some people imagine that Toronto is like Baghdad, Atlanta, or New York City. The reality is that Toronto, even with 2016's increased crime, remains objectively much safer than any of those places. All my comments below about relative safety are based on supposedly apocalyptic 2016.

As a transplanted American, I think it's cute how the natives here freak out about every murder. It's endearing. Obviously more violent crime is always bad, but I also appreciate the fact that Toronto remains truly outstandingly safe by every actual measure. If you feel uncomfortable around people who aren't white, then sure, you may feel unsafe in Toronto. To be perfectly accurate, though, you aren't unsafe. You're just racist.
#JP on Feb 06, 2017 :
Wow, there's some very good info and some worthless BS in these comments!

I can't say I care about how people "feel." If you "feel" safe in an American ghetto and you don't "feel" safe in Toronto, that's your problem. I prefer facts. In 2016, as for the last couple decades, Toronto was the second safest city with at least a million people in all of North America, after Montreal. Compared to all other *Canadian* cities down to a couple hundred thousand residents, Toronto is a bit safer than average. There's less violent crime than in Vancouver, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Saskatoon, and Saint John, but it's more dangerous than Ottawa, Quebec, and Montreal. The stats are freely available for anyone who cares to look.

Comparing internationally is a bit trickier due to differing definitions of crimes, but one crime we can agree about is homicide. Dead bodies can't be classified away. By that measure, the Toronto metro area is safer than all but two of the 113 American metro areas with at least a half million residents. Only ultra-Mormon Provo, Utah and ultra-boring Portland, Maine have fewer dead bodies per capita. Toronto is more than ten times bigger than either of those, too.

There are plenty of Canadian racists saying things like "the violent brown people are stealing all our social services." Obviously, nothing true will affect their beliefs, as they really aren't willing and/or able to process information about the world logically. For the benefit of the rest of the readers, though, the fact is that the overall violent crime rate of the "visible minority" (i.e., brown-skinned) population of the Greater Toronto Area is MUCH lower than it is for whites. That's part of why Toronto is safer than the "whiter" cities listed above. Does that mean you should avoid white areas of Toronto? No, that would be stupid, because they're awfully safe, too.

I've focused on violent crime here since getting shot is a lot scarier to me than getting robbed. Toronto definitely has less-impressive but still well below average rates of most other kinds of criminal behavior. Again, all the data is there for you to check out from the appropriate authorities if you care to look.
#Roy Murray on Dec 23, 2016 :
I live near one of the poorest parts of Toronto. My wife and I don't worry about walking through there at any time of day or night. There is a perception given by the media that Toronto crime is on the rise but it's very low. Toronto is one of the safest places in Canada and therefore North America. Toronto is just a little bigger than Chicago yet so far this year (Dec 23, 2016) we have had 67 homicides compared to Chicago's 693 over the exact same period. Some people have the perception that crime is worse than it is but the media tends to exaggerate. Crime statistics give the true story.
#Neil on Dec 07, 2016 :
I was born and raised in Toronto. I have never considered crime a problem. If you listen to the media you have a completely inaccurate picture. They report on the worst neighbourhoods in the city where thugs kill each other because they can't think of anything else to do. i.e Jane and Finch area.

My wife and I live downtown. There is no issue with guns, assaults, etc at all. Ultimately you think before you act. If you want to hang out at clubs and bars every night with drunks you will find lots of crime. Otherwise Toronto is a very exciting and liveable city.

For those that don't believe me, think about this. Do you really think house price are soaring because crime is out of control or because it is a great place to live?
#Anonymous on Dec 06, 2016 :
cant even drive some area's without fearing for safety.
#Anonymous on Nov 08, 2016 :
People make bad choices but it's usually because of stress and that stress comes from family problems or money problems. If the government could lower the taxes and/or give us more money for work maybe there would be less crimes.
#Andrew on Aug 28, 2016 :
People need to realize that in a city like Toronto, the crime rate is mostly but not entirely a representation of approximately 6 months. During the winter many people visit their homes more often as it is very cold and as such crimes like home theft decrease. In the spring, summer and fall residents of the city live more 'normally'. The city from my personal experience is VERY corrupt. The system in Toronto is set up so that those that have money and/or power can get away with much. Although this applies to other cities around the developed world, in this city it has been accepted by the public and has become the norm. I have read comments about the police below, and if true they are simply a reflection of the society. People are in much debt and stress. This combination brings out the worst in people. I miss watching people smile.
#Bob on Aug 03, 2016 :
wow so not impressed by the people who have love ins with the city and Canada when it comes to corruption. There is a problem with corruption, Mainly the Police who have their own laws and cover up for each other when something goes wrong. They are also master liers when in court.
#Jeff on Aug 01, 2016 :
I think it's going to get worse now with more cuts on the way and the drastic increase of homicides and crime rates in Toronto in the last few months.
#Callie on Jul 09, 2016 :
In literally the last three years there has been a shift in the safety of this city that I can not even type down into words. It has happened so fast and with little to no explanation but Toronto has transformed into an unsafe city (yes it really is) where people are thinking twice about going out after dark.
#Nori on Jun 07, 2016 :
I always thought of Toronto as a safe city even considering how large it is. But recently my thoughts about it have been changing, it seems now every day/night there are multiple shootings/stabbings. Usually you would associate this with gang-related activities but it seems that even simple altercations turn into mindless shootings just take a look at the Toronto Police Statistics. (
Instead of cracking down on pot dispensaries (which will be legal in a year anyway?) the city should take action on ensuring safety and bring back carding.
#Wayne. on May 17, 2016 :
I have never seen crime so high in Toronto until the last couple years. Unreal Now.
#Petra on Apr 03, 2016 :
As at April 2, 2016. There were 22 homicides in Toronto
#Fred on Mar 22, 2016 :
Torontonians justify their residence in Toronto, possibly their residence in Canada, by repeating how integrated it is, how safe it is etc. Well this is simply not true. White flight from areas such as Scarborough has been going on for years. Scarborough, Keele/Finch, downtown are all well known areas of violence and drugs. Jamaicans are largely responsible, although Indians and Pakistan is, Africans and various other migrants are behind much of the crime. Can you imagine going to Jamaica and advertising and politicians supporting the idea of all white schools so the student could do better? Of course, it doesn't really matter, employers and Universities will quickly recognize the value of High School diplomas that were handed out because the student is black, not bright. Single parent families and povery are the bain of the black community. For black, read mostly Jamaicans.
#David on Mar 12, 2016 :
As a middle class white male, the city works very well for me. I am not afraid at all walking around Toronto day or night. As everywhere else in the world, low income people might experience more crime than someone like me. Also I am sure that many women have a different experience than I do. I find it very encouraging however to see that many women feel safe walking their dogs late at night or even jogging through the parks at night when there aren't many people around. A lot of the 50 or so murders that do occur each year are related to the street drug trade where gang rivalries result in gun deaths. The majority of the population never experiences this kind of violence although once in awhile a totally innocent person happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Being white, I don't experience racial discrimination but I don't doubt that people of colour in this city have quite a different experience.
#Dogon on Feb 16, 2016 :
Toronto is safe. Homocide rate is 2.0 per 100000. Compare that to Detroit's 35, Baltimore's 29, Chicago's 14, Boston's 9. New Orleans with its 65 is in class of its own. I have lived in Toronto for 30 years now and I would never,ever move to the suburbs. I work in the suburbs and I cannot fathom how people can live there without being forced to do so at a gunpoint. I have never been robbed, my home was never broken into. As a youth I used to live Ina supposed high crime,high drug area and yet nothing ever happened to me. You have to be really stupid to find trouble in Toronto.
#Allesp on Jan 23, 2016 :
I lived in Toronto for over 20 years, then I moved away to the suburbs. People in Toronto are rude and aggressive. Too many immigrants, old values have been lost. I would not live in Toronto even if they paid me. Toronto is not a safe city. Women are raped on the streets at dark and in Campus at Universities. I live now One hour away from Toronto, and although is not 100% safe, at least I feel safer. Toronto is also a very expensive city, all major cities in Canada are very expensive.
#JT on Jan 20, 2016 :
Toronto is on the map and the whole reputation is changing. The 6 is hot right now and the thing right now is to be violent and claim stuff. I mean we got retards trying to claim subway stops. Toronto has always had a lot of drugs and I mean A LOT but now it's also adopting a practice of violence as you can tell from the 2nd first week of 2016 or sometime around then when there were multiple shootings/ stabbings every day.
#No on Jan 16, 2016 :
Toronto is doing fine. Crime isn;'t high, it isn;t super low, but its fine. Everyones fine.
#Rick on Dec 25, 2015 :
Toronto is a beautiful face with beautiful people of all races and backgrounds. It what makes us inclusive and caring toward one another. It's sad to see the bigoted comments below, but happy to see some of those people have left. I'm white, my partner is Asian, we have lived downtown and have never had an issue. Visit Toronto but be as careful as you would anywhere else. :)
#Jack on Dec 14, 2015 :
TORONTO IS NO LONGER SAFE! WATCH the news family. Shootings/stabbings literall y every day. The imbéciles who state that Toronto is so safe...that people who say it's unsafe are feafearr mongers and racist are the very same fools who end up in a body the morgue. I'm damn happy I moved my family out of that rat hole 8 years ago. Best choice ever. Face it, my children are FAR safer than the children living in TORONTO. When something happens to your kids..what will you do? "Love TO?" Lmao face the facts. TORONTO HAS BEEN RUINED AND IS A FIRING RANGE. MOT TO MENTION THE IDIOTS WHO PAY OUTRAGEOUS PRICES FOR HOMES! Think about this...If only 1% of the refugees being settled in toronto ended up being many are there? 1 is enough to ruin many lives...think about it!
#Scott on Dec 11, 2015 :
Burt is a liar, a communist and a traitor. He lies when he says immigration has improved the economy, instead of massively overburdening social services, transportation, education and the health care system at the expense of taxpayers while creating a dangerously unstable property bubble as it has actually done. He lies when he claims crime in Toronto was just as high before the non-European immigrants arrived as after. He lies when slanders James for telling the obvious truth about what has happened to Toronto. A narcissistic sociopath with morals and ethics lower than any animal, Burt is an excellent example of everything wrong with Toronto, as it is worthless, lying cretins like him who have played an instrumental role in destroying a once fine city and turning it into the filthy, dangerous cesspit of scum and depravity it is today. It must really burn Burt up to see that nationalism and patriotism are on the rise from Russia to France to the USA, and that degenerate globalist trash like him are on the wrong side of history and destined to soon receive their just reward for all the evil they have done and continue to do.
#Gregor Samsa on Dec 07, 2015 :
Honestly, the city overall is not a particularly dangerous place. Of course there are areas that are a good idea to avoid, especially at night, but even there the likelihood that you will fall victim to a violent crime is fairly low as long as you are cautious. Theft is a bigger problem, particularly bike theft. But honestly, the vast majority of people I know have never been the victim of a random crime. Toronto often looks worse than it is - because the poor areas are often adjacent to the richer areas, and because you will often see people with mental illnesses on the streets and on the TTC. They're highly visible and can often look intimidating, but they rarely become violent as long as one doesn't antagonise them.
#LEAVE CANADA NOW on Nov 10, 2015 :
Do not go into any co-op complexes or buildings. The people there are drug-addicted criminals. Our neighbour was robbed of three cigarette packets and then the suspect slept with his wife. Most people are mentally insane in some neighbourhoods and will attack you like wolves if you look at them. Hell to Toronto.
#Burt on Aug 20, 2015 :
James who wrote his racist comment below is a lying idiot. He's one of these crybaby xenophobes who hates multiculturalism because he is dysfunctional in socially getting along with anyone who does not look like him. He has hatemongering issues that were probably trained into him when he was younger. I lived in Toronto for decades. There was lots of crime before the influx of multi-cultures; bank robberies, murders and unreported rapes assaults that nobody ever knew about - not to mention child molestation. Immigration has made countries more economically stronger and powerful in global relationships. James the racist below reveals he is a right-wing hatemonger using the internet to try and spread malicious hatred. Most people of any background are more alike than different. The small minority in each society who have anti-social hatred issues will strive everyday to try and steer other decent human beings who are naive to manipulative suggestions, to become haters themselves. James is the scumbag - as you can see he tries to put down entire cultures because a few amongst them are socially deviant; it would be like saying because there are neonazis and right wing racist extremists in every country that must mean all caucasians are rightwingers..... poor James-the-racist; he knows and sees everyday how cultures and races are mixing and enjoying each others company more and more - and as a hatemonger poor James is burning up inside because he is on the wrong side of world progress and everyone with common sense knows that only stupid small minded people are on that pathetic shrinking side. I've traveled many places in the world and been walking around late at night in many cities in Canada and in my travels - I can tell you that Toronto is overall very very safe as a city to live in and walk about late at night -mostly.