Cost of Living in Athens, Greece

Prices in Athens

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Consumer Price Index (Excl.Rent): 57.66
Rent Index: 12.01
Groceries Index: 45.48
Restaurants Index: 63.45
Consumer Price Plus Rent Index: 35.44
Local Purchasing Power: 67.30

Currency: Default Currency      Switch to US measurement units
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Restaurants [Edit] Avg.
Meal, Inexpensive Restaurant 10.00 €
Meal for 2, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course 35.00 €
McMeal at McDonalds (or Equivalent Combo Meal) 6.00 €
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter draught) 3.50 €
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 4.00 €
Cappuccino (regular) 2.98 €
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle) 1.35 €
Water (0.33 liter bottle) 0.50 €
Markets [Edit] Avg.
Milk (regular), (1 liter) 1.27 €
Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 0.76 €
Rice (white), (1kg) 1.65 €
Eggs (12) 3.05 €
Local Cheese (1kg) 8.55 €
Chicken Breasts (Boneless, Skinless), (1kg) 6.98 €
Apples (1kg) 1.27 €
Oranges (1kg) 0.91 €
Tomato (1kg) 1.24 €
Potato (1kg) 0.69 €
Lettuce (1 head) 0.51 €
Water (1.5 liter bottle) 0.81 €
Bottle of Wine (Mid-Range) 5.00 €
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.01 €
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.35 €
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro) 4.00 €
Transportation [Edit] Avg.
One-way Ticket (Local Transport) 1.20 €
Monthly Pass (Regular Price) 30.00 €
Taxi Start (Normal Tariff) 3.00 €
Taxi 1km (Normal Tariff) 0.85 €
Taxi 1hour Waiting (Normal Tariff) 10.85 €
Gasoline (1 liter) 1.61 €
Volkswagen Golf 1.4 90 KW Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car) 17,000.00 €
Utilities (Monthly) [Edit] Avg.
Basic (Electricity, Heating, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment 147.10 €
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile Tariff Local (No Discounts or Plans) 0.31 €
Internet (6 Mbps, Unlimited Data, Cable/ADSL) 18.48 €
Sports And Leisure [Edit] Avg.
Fitness Club, Monthly Fee for 1 Adult 27.74 €
Tennis Court Rent (1 Hour on Weekend) 12.90 €
Cinema, International Release, 1 Seat 7.00 €
Clothing And Shoes [Edit] Avg.
1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) 69.67 €
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M, ...) 28.94 €
1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes 81.62 €
1 Pair of Men Leather Shoes 85.00 €
Rent Per Month [Edit] Avg.
Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 255.85 €
Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre 270.00 €
Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre 473.79 €
Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre 514.55 €
Buy Apartment Price [Edit] Avg.
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment in City Centre 1,464.29 €
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment Outside of Centre 1,517.86 €
Salaries And Financing [Edit] Avg.
Average Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 727.97 €
Mortgage Interest Rate in Percentages (%), Yearly 4.49

These data are based on 2386 entries in the past 12 months from 279 different contributors.

Last update: March, 2015

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100 Comments so far

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#Philip on Mar 31, 2015 :
I would say that with anything above 1000 euros/month you can live quite comfortably in Athens... obv not like a rich person, but still you will not have any problems with money. You can get by with like 700-800 euros.
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#Anoushka on Mar 09, 2015 :

Your ideology of Athens is very jaded and farfetched…. You wrote “not uncommon to see people searching the garbage bins for something to eat or leaving on a bench. Also, the last years, we have a fascist government, so the police has become pretty rough on foreigners and there are lots of instances, where foreign people (tourists, international students) have been beaten or spent time in a cell.”

What are you talking about????? All cities in Europe have homeless people and Athens is no different and actually to be very clear about something I find it foolish for you to write something so dumb in a forum like this.

Firstly this is about cost of living in Athens not about the homeless people and secondly I see more homeless people in other European cities eating out of garbage and sitting on benches etc etc. As for the police beating up foreigners!!! Are you serious? I’m not being funny but are you Pakistani? Your name and what you write would make me think you are. Nothing wrong with that at all but maybe you’ve had a bad incident here in Athens.

Do yourself a favor and Stop lying. I’m a British expat now living in Athens for the past three years and I see no such things that you write….you’re just a trolling bandwagon jumper who is deliberately trying to give Athens a negative reputation.

Statistically speaking Athens remains one of the safest cities in all of Europe and even during the turbulent years still held that accolade so please think before you write utter nonsense.

TIP: If anyone here is new to Athens I would suggest living in Kifissa or Politia in North of Athens or Glyfada or Vouliagmeni in South Athens…..very nice neighbourhoods and not too far from downtown Athens.

Have a good day
#Dave on Feb 16, 2015 :
Hello everyone!
I have been offered a job for 1040€/month in Athens, they say there are 14 salaries a year. So I just wanna know, is that enough to live in Athens? Accommodation, utilities, food..
#Perik on Jan 10, 2015 :
With anything up from 2k€ you can have a very good life in Athens. You can afford to rent a nice house in a nice area and have enough money to have a confortable life.

The good thing with Athens (and pretty much all of Greece) is that the climate is really really nice (some days in the summer can be seriously hot though) and this fact has a BIG effect in the way of life. Also the food (either you go out to eat, either you cook) is FANTASTIC!

The bad think is, that during the last years with the economic crysis hitting Greece hard, the local people have suffered a lot and nowdays it's not uncommon to see people searching the garbage bins for something to eat or leaving on a bench. Also, the last years, we have a fascist goverment, so the police has become pretty rough on foreigners and there are lots of instances, where foreign people (tourists, international students) have been beaten or spent time in a cell.

So, in conclusion Athens is a great place to be, if you have a descent income, but the political and economical environment is very tense and things can get pretty bad if you have to interract with the goverment.
#David on Nov 24, 2014 :
Hello everybody I saw on this web site I want property for own My budget is 50,000 - 75,000 Euros. Anywhere in Greece is this possible to buy a property for Non- Euro peoples. Please let me thank you
#anonymous on Nov 08, 2014 :
Don't even bother come to Greece. Politicians are in the corner just to rob your wallet.
#Brian on Oct 22, 2014 :
I'll be moving to Athens next year with my wife and child, I estimate to bring home USD 4,554 as my salary and another USD 1,100 for housing rent (utilities are not included). Do you think We'll be able to live nicely? With that housing budget, which residential are should I looking for apartment/house? how much can I save from my salary? Many thanks in advance
#Nicole Morgan on Aug 30, 2014 :
Hello everyone...

I am Nicole Morgan by name, currently living in California, USA. I am a widow at the moment with two kids and i was stuck in a financial situation in August 2014 and i needed to refinance and pay my bills. I tried seeking loans from various loan firms both private and corporate but never with success, and most banks declined my credit. But as God would have it, I was introduced to a Man of God a private loan lender who gave me a loan of $87,000USD and today am a business owner and my kids are doing well at the moment, if you must contact any firm with reference to securing a loan without collateral , no credit check, no co signer with just 2% interest rate and better repayment plans and schedule, please contact Mr Jad Harb. He doesn't know that am doing this but am so happy now and i decided to let people know more about him and also i want God to bless him more.You can contact him through his email:
#Lisa Awe on Aug 10, 2014 :
Hello, I am Lisa Awe, currently living in New jersey city, USA. I am a widow at the moment with three kids and i was stuck in a financial situation in April 2014 and i needed to refinance and pay my bills. I tried seeking loans from various loan firms both private and corporate but never with success, and most banks declined my credit. But as God would have it, I was introduced to a Man of God a private loan lender who gave me a loan of $78,000USD and today am a business owner and my kids are doing well at the moment, if you must contact any firm with reference to securing a loan without collateral , no credit check, no co signer with just 3% interest rate and better repayment plans and schedule, please contact Mr.Lewis Harry. He doesn’t know that am doing this but am so happy now and i decided to let people know more about him and also i want God to bless him more.You can contact him through his email:
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#Anoushka on Aug 05, 2014 :
HI #JoAnn,

Firstly that's a great salary whether or not living in Athens and secondly I would say yes it's more then enough however, many people forget that Athens is still part of Europe and has European prices.

If you live in the North suburbs like Kifissia, Kefalari, Politia, Nea Erythrea etc then be prepared to spend a lot of money on your living costs as these areas are affluent and expensive. If you go to the Southern suburbs for instance Glyfada, Voula, Vouliagmeni etc also be prepared to spend on your living costs.

Central Athens might be slighter cheaper but by no means cheap but I would say with your salary you would be fine. There's even Piraeus they have some pretty nice suburbs too but it depends on where you're commuting to as well.

Personally I would like to live in Thessio in central Athens I just love it there but after house hunting in the neighbourhood and viewing properties as expensive as 555, 000 EUR for a 3 bedroom/3 bathroom flat I was put off. I'm not prepared to spend that amount of money in Athens. London I would think about it. Anyway you will like Athens when you get to know's very much an insiders city so make sure you make friends.....Good Luck!!!
#JoAnn on Jul 27, 2014 :
Curious - what's the real cost of living nicely in or around Athens? Thinking of taking a position there and with my monthly investment income I'll bring home $3800 euros a month - enough to live nice??? How is it buying a used car? What can I get for say, $10,000 US cash?
#Anonymous on Jun 08, 2014 :
is it good salary in Athens for 1100 euros?
#Anonymous on Jun 07, 2014 :
The average wage in Athens is 900-1000 euros not 700 euros.
#John on Jun 07, 2014 :
800 euros are enough money to live in Athens. Athens is a cheap,beautiful city.
#Bill on Jun 02, 2014 :
Lets be honest:
Rent for a small 2b house in city center(not expensive area), about 300€ & add to that about 200€ for mothly utilities& ...there you are at 500€ just for having a place to live.
So lets see the net salary (after tax etc) nowdays in my city: with a university degree&by working about 9-11h per day, lets say that you should be happy with an more or less 650€-800€ max.
So you have about 150€-300€ to spend for all the rest of your needs, foud included.
If you anyone thinks they can made...welcome guys&girls...&N'joy our sun!!! :-D
#NickDeGreek on May 26, 2014 :
Hi to everyone - i am sorry but i will have to diaspoint many of you - unfortunuletly the living cost differs - i will give you 2 examples one in major ciry and one in a small about 20.000 population. Coommon logic- it is based by area, construction quality and dimensions + family members. 1) Athens-Thessaloniki 2 major cities living cost is : rent between 500-2000EU, monthly basic Utilities between 200-500EU, food suplies between 100-400, cloths 100-2000 (you all now Y!!),
2) small city : rent 200-1000eu, utilities 150-350,food 80-300, cloths 80-2000(again same logic).
Average earnings (not state employe) 400-900, it doesn't matter anymore how qualified you are to earn more money - but it matters for keeping u in the job. ps. cup of coffe from 2 to 7 EU (again common logic) drink 4-15 EU.
#Alex on May 14, 2014 :
no work no jobe nothing in Greece and all what u guys saying is bu shit ,,
#Assem Salama on May 12, 2014 :
Hiii guys, I am planning to study in Greece and I will gain about 800 euros net monthly and I am a single guy, so my question is this amount of salary is enough to live good in greece or not...?
thanks in advance
#Anonymous on May 04, 2014 :
Athens has amazing potential for culture. It has more beautiful buildings for sale than Berlin after the wall fell. There is the beginning of a contemporary art community. Artists changed the face of Berlin. They can change the face of athens. We believe in this extraordinary and beautiful city. It is not without sadness but it is much more real than many places we have lived. the tide is turning and the best deals in real estate are in the heart of the city. It is fantastic.
#John on Apr 29, 2014 :
I am a nurse and I earn 1100 euros net/month and my woman is teacher and she earns 1000 euros.
#marwan on Mar 15, 2014 :
Hello guys,
My waife is greek and my daughter have also the greek passport and i am planing to go and live in greece and have my own small business which is a small resturant and i am planing to take with me 80 000 $ does anyone know which place or which island i should go and open my small resturant and is there any advice for that .

now i am living in uae and i feel that everything u get here from salary u will spend .

Please advice

#Magaret on Mar 04, 2014 :
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#Magaret on Mar 04, 2014 :
Life has been so harsh on me and my family,since the passing away of my husband ontill a friend of mine introdused me to PETERSONCLARKLOANFIRM@YAHOO.COM an online loan company where i was offered a loan of €10,000 at 3% interest rate which i used to start up a business now my life has changed for the better
#Anonymous on Jan 29, 2014 :
@ Anon Teacher (Jan 2) that "does a second job earnin 300 euros and i dont declare this income to the tax office". thats the problem with Greece.
#Anonymous on Jan 02, 2014 :
@david fowler Apologies. Misunderstood your comment. Thought you were interested for property prices. Concerning your question it depends where you work, anywhere from 900-2000 (net) but don't health coverage and/or pension in most of the cases even if required by law. I don't know about ferry prices.
#Anonymous on Jan 02, 2014 :
@Peter... get a life mate....
#anonymous on Jan 02, 2014 :
@david fowler from 50,000 euros to several million. It depends what you ask for as EVERYWHERE IN THIS PLANET.
#anonymous on Jan 02, 2014 :
I don't know what you are talking about. I am a teacher of 4 years and i earn 1020 euros net/month. My wife is a private employee in a bank and she earns 970 euros net/a month.
Yes there are low salaries but this is black market and not for full time job. The biggest problem is unemployment yet at least for greeks there is still unfortunately lots of black market. I do a second job earnin 300 euros (2 hrs a day) and i dont declare this income to the tax office.
Yes we are worse than we used to be but much better than many countries i have visited e.g. all our neighboors and even poland where a teacher there earns 450 euros a month net and where people leave in 2 or 3 because they cant afford to rent a flat.
So stop writing nonsense and get your things straight.
#david fowler on Dec 25, 2013 :
Hi can any one tell me salary for head gardener on private estate on ithaca thanks david also ferry price kefalonia to ithaca
#Peter on Nov 14, 2013 :
Please, it is useful for the shake of realistic and reliability, tourists and those that do not live in Athens, to avoid leave your comment here because i noticed some posts and they are really far away from the reality, because those people do not live in Athens and they don't cope with the daily life's problems there. If you compare Athens with the major EU capitals, it is by far the most expensive capital because after paying all your basic utilities in Athens (if you are able to pay them this period), you don't have a penny in your pocket, something that doesn't happen to a citizen of London, or Stockholm or Oslo. The wages are very small (350-500 euros) and the life so so expensive. No comments about security, it is by far the most unsecure capital with terrorism, extremism, anarchists, every day demonstrations, every day chaos.
#Peter on Nov 14, 2013 :
Sorry, salary disposable (after tax) 750.00 Euro doesn't exist any is 400-500 the middle wage this period in Athens.
#Anonymous on Nov 14, 2013 :
Prices per m2 to buy an apartment at the center (meaning the downtown real center of it) are not as low it shows! As I have added the price is ~5000 EURO/m2 as of 10/11/2013 ! Of course if you go out of the center (ie. Kipseli, Patisia, Ampelokipoi, etc) the prices drop rapidly to ~2000 for new appartment! Used >10 years flats are at about 1000 Euro/m2 and older than that, ie 40+ years old, are to a low of even down at 500 - 600 Euro/m2 !
#Anonymous on Nov 14, 2013 :
Premise: I love Greece and the Greeks

Having said that, Greece (and especially Athens) is probably the country with the widest income-gaps in the whole of Europe.
Most of my Greek friends are wealthy, but every time I go to Athens i spend more money than when i go to London.. and most of these places are frequented by Greeeks.

Ok - my friends are a minority, clearly. Greece is quickly becoming a 2nd world country.. in terms of living standards, it will soon be overtaken by eastern european countries like Slovakia, Slovenia and Poland. The situation is BAAAAAD.

It's such a shame. THe politicians ruined what once used to be one of the best countries to live in (in my opinion)
#Thanos Panagos on Nov 03, 2013 :
@Emj: In general, yes it is.
#Emj on Oct 25, 2013 :
Is it possible to live with 1200/1300 Euros per month in Athens for one single person?
#Anonymous on Oct 10, 2013 :
It is very beautiful city and very cheap!
#Kristina on Oct 04, 2013 :
Hi guys, I don't know to who I should ask so I try here. I found this side and I got opportunity to work in Athens. But, I have no idea, how is it there with salary and so on. So I have a Q - is it enough to earn monthly gross salary 1024 Eur and to have relatively normal live - go out, and so on. Thanks for any answer :)
##Kamran on Jul 30, 2013 :
I got admission in Athen university. I belongs to a middle class family with a meagre income. The university covers my tuition fee expenditures only, and so because of this i have to afford the living expenditures. Kindly guide me through the total cost of living.Since it is difficult for me to afford the living at athens so kindly provide me with costs that i can manage.
#H. on Jul 30, 2013 :
I entered these prices:
- Water: €0.25. In super market the norm is to by six-packs of water for which the price starts from €1.50, thus divided by 6, gives €0,25 per 1 1/2 litter bottle.
- Mortgage interest rate: 2%. For people who got mortgages on CHF or JPY a few years back in floating rate, the interest rate is even less than 1% nowadays. For mortgages in EUR, the i.r. Is around 3%.
- price per sq. meter in city centre: this is a tough one because in cheap areas of city centre, for older not recently refurbished apartments, given also the financial crunch, prices have plummeted to €800 or even lower than this threshols. Of course in the affluent city centre areas of Kolonaki, Plaka and Lykavyttos prices can still be well above €5,000 per sq m.
#Peiraeus on Jun 08, 2013 :
While monthly GYM membership is around 40€, annual membership can be as low as 90€
#Anonymos on Jun 07, 2013 :
Providing a second
(more or less; there is a difference in both total pensioners and amount paid in pensions but what I think we're interested in is the order of magnitude or anyway the approximate average pension)
source, publicised today, this time from a supposedly more reliable source, on pensions: (in Greek)


2,714,034 pensioners (of all kinds) and 2,281,747,514.08€ total pension cost ->
Average-mean total monthly pension = 840.72€

Or as the article states verbatim at the lead, the average old age pension before tax and health-care deductions is 907.65€.
#someone greek on May 14, 2013 :

For fresh vegetables/fruit calculate a -20%-->-45% to that of the prices you pay in Belgium depending on fruit/vegetable. e,g, tomatos 1.20kg... watermelon 20cents/kilo, cucumbers 20-40cents etc... Also quality is much better in Greece than anywhere in belgium. For meat a -10% to -20%,
For anything else prices are more or less similar.
For fruits and meat i would not advise aldi or liddl and they are inferior in quality but not so much in prices when it comes to grocery shops. For anything else they are OK.
Fish (not tuna as it is not very common) is generally expensive depending on what you take

#Leen on May 01, 2013 :
Hello Anonymos,
Thank you very much for your respons to my question. You gave me some things to think about so I'll take what you write into consideration.
Greetings from Antwerp,
#Anonymos on Apr 30, 2013 :
Hello Leen and welcome to you(here) and your daughter(to Greece).
Unfortunately imo it's quite meaningless to even try to answer your question.
Let your daughter first come and settle down somewhere and then you can communicate and make a comparison of prices of goods and services.
Let her get e.g. accustomed to eating as we locals do and then you could talk and figure out what's more cheap or convinient to do.
There are markets(yes liddle too), budget or "budget" markets here too but not necessarily in every district
(close to where e.g. she's going to be living;we Greeks usually, I dare say, shop at the local market(s), very close-by to our homes;the cities are mostly urban and closely,densely packed(shops,markets too) wherein most people live in flats;guessing from this,_2010_%28%25_of_population%29.png&filetimestamp=20121109160143 you on the other hand seem to be living in a more suburban-like enviroment wherein the big markets may -I don't know- be the norm),
not necessarily like the ones you know(e.g. size), not necessarisly selling the exact, the same brands, packaging and kind of goods(e.g. some vegetables-greens, fruits, olives-olive-oil etc are supposed to be much cheaper here) you are used to or want-like and not necessarisly budgety or even expensive when compared to what you may have been accustomed to.
Out of your 3 products you've mentioned I could say nothing about 2(diapers and tuna;don't usually buy them);I could talk about tomato-paste but then again I won't cause it might not be what she'll face when she stays somewhere else.
Though I haven't answered (al least) directly your question, I sincerely tried to help in my own way.
Cheers mate
and many thanks for the work and help of your daughter and family.

P.S.One thing (out of a few) I could talk about comparing countries with almost certainty would be how much people get paid, i.e. difference in wages-salaries.But since she's not going to be paid, since as I've at least understood she's doing it pro bono, that won't be neccesary...
#Leen on Apr 29, 2013 :
I'm looking for some help... We live in Belgium, and my daughter is going to Athens in july to do some volunteer work with needy groups(poor people, homeless people and refugees). I want to find out what the Athen-prices are for baby diapers, tomato paste, tuna in a tin, etc... Are there any budget supermarkets (we have Aldi and Lidl)in Athens?
If we buy/collect things here, we will have to pay for the transport, therefore I would like to find out what the best option is: sending goods baught here or giving my daughter money to buy the goods in Athens.
Thank you for any help you can give!
Greetings from Belgium,
#Anonymos on Apr 27, 2013 :
P.S.Note on OECD pension age data:
Again I have to repeat, something which I forgot when providing those links, that these are averages that don't show the full picture whatever that may be.
Anyway sorry but I don't think there is any source out there presenting-providing relevant pension age distribution data.We're in fact very lucky to have this source...
#Anonymos on Apr 27, 2013 :
So concluding, following your constant demands of finding places-countries that don't do x,y,z things like-as Greece does (be these x,y,z things good or bad), I will also counterask you, I will demand from you to name two countries in the Europe-EU that don't provide some form of minimum guaranteed income to their citizens.

Have no worries;I'm gonna answer myself(cause I already know that chances of you actually providing us with some useful accurate reliable thoughts and data are close to 0);In fact I've already answered, I've already provided the answer to it.
It's ONLY Greece and Italy...
In case you hadn't noticed them(I know you did and just evaded in silence and/or moving the goalpost) here are the links-sources again:
#Anonymos on Apr 27, 2013 :
And as far as official data show most Greeks don't retire that soon(i.e. in the age your mom or aunt or whatever did):

You cannot keep asking, sending me to chase wildgoose data, sources and references and not giving, i.e. providing data, real arguments and answers.
I've already, even now in this reply, provided you with a great amount of info argumetns and data.
The onus probandi is yours.

#Anonymos on Apr 27, 2013 :
As far as I know most pensioners in Greece get a pension well below 1000€ and for many closer to 500€.Cannot provide an direct official link (database-like with matrices etc) for this sorry.
But I can provide something close to it; a online Greek news source quoting an official person in government(I've just found it by googling):,3-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CF%83-%CF%84%CE%BF-%CF%8D%CF%88%CE%BF%CF%82-%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD-%CE%BC%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BD-%CF%83%CF%85%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%AC%CE%BE%CE%B5%CF%89%CE%BD (sorry non hellenophones , but I can't help that it's in Greek):
Therefrom All of these pension-funds pay 2,347,173,168 € monthly in pensions to 2,952,082 pensioners in total.
After doing the division this equals to a MEAN-AVERAGE MONTHLY PENSION of 795.09€.
Note: 1I will again repeat that an average by itself isn't enough to describe accurately the distribution.
2.Cannot vouch for this site's reiliability, could't replicate it from more known news sites, so people please handle it with care and reasonable doubt.

#Anonymos on Apr 27, 2013 :
No thanks I won't.I won't fall into the trap.

Until at least you provide official references-sources for the numbers, employment and pension-social-security-fund details and provide how common is this in Greece, if your statements are true that is, i.e. statistical data, distributions from official reliable sources.
And since you're constantly sending me into a wild goosechase of research, I WILL NOW DEMAND FROM you to provide official references-sources that in most other, or better following your repeated again and again silly example and practice, in ALL OTHER countries this(what you've claimed about your mother and aunt) doesn't happen at all!!!
So try to be the one for once that provides the data and especially in this case the negative near-universal-existential data-claim
( ∃! x: P(x), where x is Greece (and only Greece) and P is your -whatever- claim on Greece's awful uniqueness) !!!

You cannot keep citing anecdotal evidence, possible(or not) exceptions to the rule or hearsay and claim that that's true or the norm!Even if your mom's or aunt's pension is of the level and details that you've provided,even if what you claim is indeed true and real, it wouldn't make a great difference cause it's not the norm!

#kostas on Apr 27, 2013 :
so one country of this planet where someone can get or could get (until 2012) pension of 1350 euros net being 48 years old with cost of living similar to that of greece and efapax (one payment off) of ~40,000- 50,000 euros being a supermarket cashier.

Thank you.

P.S. Make also comparison with the bankrupt ones but not only with them.

#Anonymos on Apr 23, 2013 :
1.Again heresay.Distributions are what matter.And references so that one might verify and possibly falsify claims, i.e test claims.
You've talked about your aunt and her high or "high" pension, I can talk e.g. about my mother (and most of my kin) and her low or "low" pension.
Both as such are not important, are irrelevant.
The overall distribution is what matters, what is important.
On which I've provided sources.
On which you've provided null.

2.So you've claimed-asked:
Is here any other country other than G that does X?No!Only country G does this crazy X thing!!
I've responded:
Here are countries x1,x2,... that do X.
Your response:
You dare compare countries x1,x2,... to countries G?

So you treat your claim basically as an unfalsifiable, untestable, a priori truth.What do you think you are, God Almighty? ;-)

3.bla,bla,bla is what you do, not I.
To make this,my case, even more strong:
I think that one of the things I've claimed before
(loss of 13&14th monthly installments for all,not just for some groups even if there are huge)
is not true despite what I've read and said here hitherto.I have been trying and I'm still trying to check this.I ask all readers to please disregard this specific past claim of mine.
Now it would be nice if you yourself would be more sincere and more rational-empirical in what you claim.
But it's difficult, heresay and untestable vague generalities are much more easy and trendy things to...
#kostas on Apr 14, 2013 :
private employee (cashier i meant)..not employer
#kostas on Apr 14, 2013 :
@anonymos...bla..bla.. is nice, but we talk about a BANKRUPT country that still pays ''high'' salaries and pensions compared to other more ''healthy'' states. aunt private empolyer (supermarket) 47 years in pension (child below 18) and pension 1250 euros NET (efapax 42,000 euros) mum..public employee (hospital) retired 56 (pension 1350 euros net)...where else you have that??
bla..bla..bla.. is nice but if you live with money that other borrow not the case.
p.s. this is not a political forum. This is a forum talking about cost of life/salaries etc..and having lived in 6 countries over the past many years i can tell you that the quality of life in Greece of today is much better than many many more ''healthy'' countries.
p.s. you quote links from new zealand...can u even dare to compare new zealand of today (financially) with Greece? than you can even compare with monaco...also.
I will end by saying that for the financial situation of greece we have of the highest living standartds in Europe of 27. Of course it is deteriorating and soon will be a crash, but it will take time. Big problem is UNEMPLOYMENT not salaries which are high.
#Anonymos on Apr 13, 2013 :
P.P.S." you did not name to me one country of this world that gives 500 euro pensions to someone that never paid anything in his/her entire life."
I don't have to.I've already answered in a different -inter alia- but equally strong way(i.e. redistribution all around the western(aand even more) world).I could even more argue that all people contribute anyway even if they don't contribute to a specific pension scheme-fund per se(e.g. indirect taxes).Which I already did for the Greek agricultural sector of the economy.

But you might anyway want to read this
or additionally if you speak Greek this

But let me also do a simple thing that for some strange reason seems that it's impossible for you (+Costas +many other people) to do;
I.e. google, do a simple search:

1.Google "pension". Whence: Whence: and Whence(references 5,6): ,

I don't live in any of these two countries.Their specifics elude me.I'm might even be wrong in these aforementioned cases.But being an adult that has read the required minima, I know that there are many countries in the world that directly or indirectly, in some way or another, provide some guaranteed income or benefits to its citizens, either in the form cash or (also) in food stamps, in medical care or ....
irrespectively (or on extremely low eligibility citeria, practically nothing (e.g. only being a native citizen of old age)) of whether or how much one has directly contributed to a pension or helath-care fund.
It's simply a part of redistribution in social welfare economies(that includes, as already told, even the USA).Moreover most people of very low wealth-income in many western countries (if not all) for example receive (much) more than they have payed per se in the relative pension or health care funds(a thing that corresponds to a negative tax rate in their non receiving years).
Cause if they didn't they would die or live like people of the 3rd world.
Now I know and understand that many people would like to have this negated.To have us return to the glorious old age of most people living and dying in poverty if and when they couldn't provide for themselves.
Well, they better try harder or at least realise that there will be a fightback... ;-)

#Anonymos on Apr 13, 2013 :
P.S.Let's not also forget that on top of the 5,000,000 workforce there is also the small issue of pensioners-pensions etc.... ;-)

#Anonymos on Apr 13, 2013 :
Why should I do that?Do the research and work yourself.YOU have the onus probandi,the burden of proof(WITH references) to support your views whatever they may be.NOT I.
But even if I did do that it would be irrelevant by itself:
The current workforce of Greece is about 5,000,000 people;to present the situation properly, to provide the full picture(as much as possible) one must present not just some few cases, some heresay or some anecdotal "evidence" or wages-salaries of a very small subset of the workforce;one has instead to provide a distribution of wages,income,prices etc.That's what I've done or at least tried to.
You're free to try it yourself... on Apr 13, 2013 :
so let's take a few occupations and tell me the net salaries incl everything of a single person:
teacher (+2 years experience)
police olice lieutenant (+2 years of experience)
tax officer (+2 years of experience)
bank clerk (+2 years of experience)
post office clerk (+2 years of experience) etc...
p.s. i have worked in countries like poland..prices are cheaper but not some things they are even more expensive, fresh food stuff etc. waiting for your answer.. the problem are not salaries in greece but you did not name to me one country of this world that gives 500 euro pensions to someone that never paid anything in his/her entire life.
#Anonymos on Apr 11, 2013 :
A great number of people that e.g. serve or served you (in one way or another), before or after the economic crisis
(either e.g. as cleaners, as waitors, as security guards, as call-centre employees, as clerks, as builders etc etc etc),
when you are or were in Greece, are and were being paid salaries equal to, close to or even below the legally mandated minima.Even more people earn much less than the (totally out of touch with reality when presented as the norm)numbers you've claimed(just look at the next Collective-Bargain-Agreements level after the minimum).
On top of that all of the people in Greece are and were not paying e.g. consumer prices of the much lower magnitude-level of many ex Soviet Republics countries(i.e. goods, services etc are are generally much cheaper there).
Also the great majority of foreigners in Greece are-were not wealthy expats as you've claimed (or I think you did, not sure what you meant there) but poor immigrants, most of them illegal or ex post facto legalised.And while I will not comment on whether their presence here was-is good or bad, acceptable or not, the money most of them earn-earned is certainly even less than what us locals make or made(in fact some of them treated more like slaves)...
Also part-time jobs, that manyatimes are part-time only in name and as far as pay is concerned when in reality they're closer to full-time with the overtime not being paid, are manyatimes NOT by choice but instead by necessity(no other jobs available and/or employer abuse).The fact that part-time jobs exist elsewhere too is irrelevant;it doesn't change the income distribution, it only negates (as all other facts do) your baseless claim that only high unemployment matters;unemployment (high or low) certainly matters but it's certainly NOT the sole negative factor.
As far being paid from something that one has not contributed to(either supposedly or really, partially or totally, directly or indirectly):
that happens, in way or another, IN EVERY redistributive social-welfare economic system in the world including the USA.BY DEFINITION.
So please stop talking nonsense.We're not little children here to whom you can propagandise ex cathedra.To be totally clear in the specifics, the farmers that you've mentioned that indeed got or get a (ridiculously low for that matter) pension, may have not contributed to a pension fundscheme in their youth but were nevertheless some of the main,biggest contributors to our economy and exports(as Greece had been a mainly agricultural country) in the past (and still are in comparison to many other countries); but even if they weren't, a modern western state DOESN'T simply leave its citizens starve or die;it's just simple as that....
Anyway the problem(or anyway one of the problems) was that the social fund system had not yet being transformed to include them and their (oftenly long hard) work.
There were and still are certainly some abuses to the system(either generally(both in Greece and elsewhere) or refering just to these Greek farmers) but that's not a reason to use a ponaei cheri kobei cheri (cut a hand if it hurts, for the non hellenophones out there, you get the picture) kind of logic and reasoning...

So please stop spouting , especially without proper references, anecdotal evidence and/or apples and oranges arguments.
Distributions and real data matter.Analysis matters.Reason matters.Empirical evidence matters.
#kostas on Apr 06, 2013 :
@anonymos...u are being a bit confused. 750 in 2011 at someone with no education/(basic education) not married etc..a.k.a practically minimum legal salary which at the time was tax free (12,000 no income tax).
As for pensioners you are again confused. For the minimal legal retirement (OGA) people would get 380 euros + EKAS 170 (at the time) even IF they NEVER paid any contributions in their life. WHere this was happening in the entire planet?
Now things are getting tougher, but part time work exists everywhere...and definetely STILL we are much better of than many countries...e.g poland, slovenia, etc.Salaries are not the issue..they can go lower, (why a polish teacher makes 400 euros/month and a greek 1000?)...the problem is unemployment...but anyway out of the context in this thread. Foreigners that will move to greece are expats with high relative incomes...
and furthermore..just one extreme example. athens-->police officer 1150 net (8 years) price 65sm2 380 (average area). Geneva-->police officer 5200 CHF price 65 sm2 (average area) 2800-3100CHF..who is better of? we just CRY to much in greece instead of being hard working and PRODUCTIVE.
#Anonymos on Apr 01, 2013 :
Lastly in order for people not to think that I'm evading specifics:
E.g. according to the National General Collective Bargain Contract-Agreement (GSEE) in 2011 (more specifically from July 1st 2011;before this date it had obviously been less) the montly starting (but in effect predominant) gross wage (x14) of an unmarried full time private sector clerk without previous work experience or university education, was 750.65€, id est equivalent to ~10500€ gross annually;something that's btw long lost now.

Source: (that's the official GSEE ( internet site and text of agreement for people not acquainted with Greek language or issues)

P.S. Btw the 2 "extra" montly wages (that accounted for the x14 multiplication of the montly wages in order to calculate annual income) have been lost for (practically) all people since 1/1/2013.Henceforth annually it's x12 ....

#Anonymos on Apr 01, 2013 :
There is an incredible number of people in various professions-occupations(and also pensioners)in Greece that make and made (much) less than 1000€ monthly(*12)=12000€ annually in Greece.You can easily understand this without refering to a specific trade by realising that not all people have employment, full employment or year-round full employment ...
The sources I've cited are , however problematic (as already explained either way, up or down), official EU and Greek statistics.That's why full statistical distributions matter and citing average data or heresay generally !~%@s...
#Anonymos on Mar 30, 2013 :
No sorry you're the one that's wrong cause minimum wage != minimum guaranteed income or basic income.
See e.g. vs & &
#kostas on Feb 08, 2013 :
p.s. and the link you indicate is largely undervaluing many countries. I live in switzerland and what is indicated there is by far not for Greece name 1 occupation in 2011 that made 900 euros net..nurse 1st year 1050, teacher 1st year 1020..what is not quoted also in the wages is subsidies (epidomata) which are 20-35% of the gross salary.
But to the end truth is the things deteriorate as we speak.
#kostas on Feb 08, 2013 :
@anonymos you are wrong in many things u write..i will not comment but there is OBVIOUSLY a minimum salary that being nowadays 578 euro...was 720 few years ago..but the crisis changed it
#Anonymos on Jan 30, 2013 :
Also to be noted:
In Greece (like in Italy) there is no minimum guaranteed income unlike virtually all other European countries;there are also, with practically insignificant exceptions, no things like rent subsidy (subsidized housing);finally unemployment benefits are available at most (if at all available) for 12 months after being fired and often for less than that(duration mostly depends on how much one has worked in the 1-2 previous to being fired years).
#Anonymos on Jan 30, 2013 :
Sorry the proper second link I meant to provide was this:
It's a map and table of Europe showing average wages in US$ by country.
The one I linked to is the citation on Greek data(which itself doesn't link directly to OECD data on Greece).
It's less official but it's helpful on getting a rough picture and comparison of things.
#Anonymos on Jan 30, 2013 :
To people claiming that wages-salaries and pensions are typically about 1200€ per month and moreover 14times this number cited also as an anomaly.

1.Many countries in Europe have a >12 monthly installments annual salary-wage-pension scheme.
2.Not all jobs in Greece pay >12 installments.
2.Learn the difference between gross and net.
3.Learn the difference between average and median;learn in other words what a statistical distribution is.

The only real analytical data on income distribution in Greece that are easily available are from EU-SILC.They are problematic and can underestimate or overestimate things -depending on various issues and views- but still they are the only ones we have.
See here if the following links will be allowed : or go to Eurostat page for the raw data.
Alternativelly OECD data on averages here

Based on these net and annually the median was in 2010 ~12000€ and the average ~14000€.That is equivalent to 12 installments of ~1000€ and ~1167€ respectivelly.These numbers have of course fallen greatly since then.
Now factor in prices and rejoice... ;-)
#kostas on Dec 24, 2012 :
@Ash Sorry but this is a stupid question...why would u need to carry cash? assuming you want a cheap budget aim at at 40-50 euros/day for a descent hotel and 10 euros min a day to eat.
#Ash on Dec 09, 2012 :

I want to know an rough estimate of "how much money should I carry to spend 1 month in greece?". I would be on a short business trip there so wanted to know.

Please let me know asap:).
#Anonymous on Dec 03, 2012 :
@tonia, I am postdoc at the university of athens and i receive 1350 euros net.
My gal is a teacher at a public school and she get 1180/month (net). Yes salaries have been reduced a lot but well bad or good the public sector still pays. It is mostly the private sector that has been ruined. really have a problem dont you?? to waste you your time in this fora blaming collectively all people. Yes we go through bad times but I mean compared to our neighbors greece is a heaven on earth..
P.S. i have lived also in NL for six years earning ~2.1k and my purchasing power was even less than here in athens if you account for housing etc e.g. I pay 550 euros (with mygal) for 130sm2 flat/month in a good area of athens when in amsterdam i needed 1200 for 80sm2...
##Tony on Nov 12, 2012 :
Greeks,remember,DO NOT pay your tax,and all will be good.Keep living it up and keep blaming everyone else.Greeks will never learn on how to control money,so the cost of living should not realy matter,because there is always a pick and a shoval.Greeks should feel guilty earning 600 euros/month as they should be more realistic on about 300 euro/month TAX FREE.As i am Greek ,i hope my country collapses.
#menia on Nov 04, 2012 :
Hi everyone. I'm greek and i live in Athens. I'm reading some of the comments and i'm speechless for their ignorance. I work part time, usually 6 hours daily and i'm considered lucky. My salary is 400 euros per month!! Oh, and i don't have insurance. My boyfriend works for a full time job and his salary is 620 euros. And he is very lucky because he has insurance. Note that full time means more than 8 hours. I want to meet these people, with 1250 euros salary. My father has 30 years of working experience and he gets 1200 euros. My friends who work don't get more than 600 euros. Of course the ones that work are minority. And we are university graduates. Athens is expensive for Greeks.
How can you call us lazy? I'd expect more support from middle class people. Except you are all rich and eat dinner with Obama. When economic crisis hits your country and everyone blames you, remember that. Greece, Spain, Portugal are the first victims, nothing more and nothing less. Of course our politicians our corrupted and i agree that it's our fault. We elected them. We are stupid, corrupted, etc. But definitely not lazy. You see immigrants and not Greeks working because they are hired with less money- yes less than 600. They are as desperate as natives.
#Gumeni on Sep 27, 2012 :
I just wanna know what is the price for draught beer in pub?
#Mladen on Sep 24, 2012 :

Restaurants can account for 25% of total spending (not disposable income). Some people eat both lunch and dinner in restaurants and they go out (where resturants section is counted here as well).
#Elias on Sep 22, 2012 :
I would like to mention that despite the usefulness of data posted here there are a lot of things that should be improved. First of all an amendment is necessary in your statistical model, restaurant can't account for 1/4 of disposable income.

Secondly, average salary definitely is not 895 euros. Yes, unemployment is extremely high at 25%, but the average salary of the persons currently working is higher.

I estimate that average salary is about 1250 euros/month (1300-1350 in public sector and 1100 - 1200 in private sector) and to make fair comparison with other countries due to 14 salaries that are in Greece, average salary currently is 1350€ with mean European standards (12 salaries/year standards except of Spain,Portugal and Greece).
#Anonymous on Sep 13, 2012 :

Wow, your pensions are nearly on par as some of the Western World pensions if you dont contribute in your own super.

May I ask, who was funding your pensions?

I think Greece's problem today lies within your own Government who has over inflated your prices in daily goods, borrowed money and let the country drink Moet but really could only afford home made Retsina.

Do you get my point?

Reality has hit and now you cry crocodile tears. Time to live like your neighbors and start working instead of creating phoenix companies for a Euro donation.
#Mary on Sep 13, 2012 :

If the average wage in Greece is between 1200-1500 euro's then why are there demonstrations with people holding pots & pans & soup kitchens everywhere?

Obviously someone is not getting paid.
#GoldenAgeOver on Sep 13, 2012 :
Im an Aussie who holidayed in Greece and I found prices expensive to what I pay in Australia. Coke for over 2 euro with water being about the same. Unfortunately I ran out of sunscrean and paid 16 euro's for 250ml for it!!!! I paid $8 for a litre in Coles here!! I even paid 4 euro's for a shitty frappe!

This is the problem with Greece, they have no exports and productivity, like to pay themselves well compared to the surrounding developing countries and borrow money from Western Governments.

prices for accommodation is ridiculous since the staff are inexperienced, rude, abnoxious & nothing on par to western countries or even Thailand yet they charge the same!


Greek people are also lazy yet they complain but none of them want to work in summer but higher immigrants from poor neighboring countries. I only saw half naked Greek women dancing on the podium in Mykonos. I guess that is Greece's finest skills.
#Peppe on Sep 10, 2012 :
I agree with Nadia. The information quoted here is not correct. Average salary is in the range to 1200-1500 (~5 years experience) euros/month net. Yes there are some low paid jobs (500-700 euros) part time etc but not the salaries. the big problem is indeed unemployment.
#Nantia on Aug 22, 2012 :
I live in Athens. I rent a wonderful 6year-old, second-floor apartment in the suburbs, 110sp.m. and pay 500euros per month (the owner reduced the price recently. It was 600 per month). My electricity bill is about 60 euros per month. Water is approximately 14euros/mo. Heating is more expensive since petrol price is constantly rising. Last year it was about 150/mo (for 6 months). Facility expenses in the building are 70 euros/mo.
We spend (for 2 people) 400euros/mo in the Supermarket.
Dinner at a taverna for 2 people is 40-50 euros including house-wine and desert.
A drink at a bar (whisky,vodka, etc) is usually 7.50euros.
Movie ticket is 7,00. Movie rental 2.20.

Bottom line: If you are an expat, Athens is cheap and wonderful.
If you are Greek... you have to survive on one lousy income because in each household 1 out of 2 is unemployed!
#Greg on Aug 19, 2012 :
Well guys and gals this might come as a wake up call but there are no more 700 euro jobs available. Now the starting salary for jobs in the private sector is much much lower. Unemployment officially is at 25% ( in reality only God knows where the hell it is ) . Taxes are getting worse by the hour . It is coming to the point that you can not even starve on a decent job. Come live your myth in Greece.
#Kostas on May 27, 2012 :
just to be accurate about the cut-off payment or so called efapax in greek...i meant 50,000-75,000 euros and not 750,000 :)
#Kostas on May 27, 2012 :
I may also mention...the retiring age for many many employees was at the ages of 45-50 years of age with a pension in the area of 1000-1300 euros(net) (one cut-off payment in the range of 50000-750000 euros -efapax-) which allowed them to also have a second job.
If you dont live in the country you dont know how it ''works'' and unfortunately the wrong way it worked brought where it is now.
#Kostas on May 27, 2012 :
I like the discussion about ''average'' so called salaries. Truth is that in Greece we have a contrast with the rest of civilised world. Private sector pays worse than public sector. The ''average'' salary in public sector in somewhere in the area of 1200-1500 euros (at least) given 5-10 years of past employment etc. However, even if rent prices are cheap, the rest is expensive. I ve been living in Zurich with 4000 euros a month having to pay 2000 euros on a flat..For sure you have another 2000 euros to spend though..Greece's problem is corruption and unemployment, because most people have a second source of income (at least those who want to work) which they dont declare because of tax purposes.
#Larry on May 21, 2012 :
I'd say that the average salary in Greece is even lower now (~ 750 euros per month).
No changes to prices.

The mess is a long story, but I guess it's a combination of 1) low competitiveness, 2) a strong currency (low production + big imports = euros that move towards the rich and most competitive countries of EU) and gross borrowing by corrupt politicians (example: if you German or French lend me some billions, I will put some millions in my pocket, but I will also buy some planes / tanks / submarines from your industries)!

My only question is how come Germany pretends they new nothing about the corruption in Greece, since they fed it!
#Anonymous on May 16, 2012 :
So Greece has very low wages and are out of balance with the index Euro value hence why it is in a mess and No or very little money to pay their Workers
#dimitra on Apr 07, 2012 :
andrea the site and the graphic above do not show how greek people actually react in that market. It just show how much unreasonable is our price structur
#Andrea on Apr 05, 2012 :
I have to say that the "distribution of cost of living" pie chart is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!

Who the hell spends 1/3 of their income on RESTAURANTS??!

According to this chart people are spending THREE times as much on restaurants as they are for their rent - what planet are these people living on??

A request to the site admins of NUMBEO: - please, please re-design these charts so that they reflect most people's real-life expenditures, and not just rich ex-pat tax-exiles/bankers/tycoons..etc..etc..not everyone planning to move abroad is a millionaire!
#Mladen on Mar 28, 2012 :
Michael, poor hotel owners in Greece, they have to pay taxes :-P
#Michael on Mar 27, 2012 :
However when viewing the salary people earn on average deducting the taxes they have to pay you quickly come to the conclusion that for the locals things are expensive. Also one has to assume that the average person there has been misguided by the banks and other financial institutions that they live in a first world country so they should consume without limits (cars, luxury goods, own their own businesses, etc) however they are not. They live off the tourist trade mainly but due to the worldwide recession that is going down also those people who where farmers and invested heavy into converting their land into hotels on the islands are now paying the price
#Alex on Mar 04, 2012 :
Ok, I understand that in Greece is bad, but I sugest that you all take a look on south-east Europe(Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary). By far is worse than in Greece and we have to pay their duties (the average income in Romania is around 250 E). So leave the Greece people alone, because they are doing just fine if we compare them with romanian or bulgarian people. Txs
#anon on Feb 13, 2012 :
I find your prices for Athens cheaper then the islands, here we have only 6 months work a year for an increasingly lower wage, more tax (with amusing names!!!) and extremely high prices for everything. I think there will be alot of people on the streets soon.
#Greg on Jan 18, 2012 :
Average Salary for Greeks is $1133(Converted to AUD), in Australia the average Salary per month is $3500 ($42,000 per year)... Big Difference!!.. So most items for Aussies in Greece are like less than half price. No wonder Greeks are always complaining how expensive things are in Greece. Really things are cheap just the wages are extremely on the low side.
#Greg on Jan 18, 2012 :
OK am I reading this right?... Everything looks so cheap.. I live in Melbourne and when i displayed everything in AUD it was way cheaper for items than it is here. Example Cigarettes, $15 here in Athens $4.85 AUD equivalent. .60c for a bottle of water compared to $3 here. It foes on and on. Rent $400 odd a month!!.. We pay that a week here. It maybe expensive for Ppl in greece as their salaries are so low. For Aussies coming to Greece is Very cheap on our salaries. Feel sorry for the Greeks!!.

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