Cost of Living in Athens, Greece

Hello Anonymos,
Thank you very much for your respons to my question. You gave me some things to think about so I'll take what you write into consideration.
Greetings from Antwerp,
Leen

Hello,
I'm looking for some help... We live in Belgium, and my daughter is going to Athens in july to do some volunteer work with needy groups(poor people, homeless people and refugees). I want to find out what the Athen-prices are for baby diapers, tomato paste, tuna in a tin, etc... Are there any budget supermarkets (we have Aldi and Lidl)in Athens?
If we buy/collect things here, we will have to pay for the transport, therefore I would like to find out what the best option is: sending goods baught here or giving my daughter money to buy the goods in Athens.
Thank you for any help you can give!
Greetings from Belgium,
Leen

So concluding, following your constant demands of finding places-countries that don't do x,y,z things like-as Greece does (be these x,y,z things good or bad), I will also counterask you, I will demand from you to name two countries in the Europe-EU that don't provide some form of minimum guaranteed income to their citizens.

Have no worries;I'm gonna answer myself(cause I already know that chances of you actually providing us with some useful accurate reliable thoughts and data are close to 0);In fact I've already answered, I've already provided the answer to it.
It's ONLY Greece and Italy...
In case you hadn't noticed them(I know you did and just evaded in silence and/or moving the goalpost) here are the links-sources again:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/201106/20110620ATT21867/20110620ATT21867EN.pdf
http://www.ineobservatory.gr/sitefiles/files/meleti9.pdf

As far as I know most pensioners in Greece get a pension well below 1000€ and for many closer to 500€.Cannot provide an direct official link (database-like with matrices etc) for this sorry.
But I can provide something close to it; a online Greek news source quoting an official person in government(I've just found it by googling):
www.dealnews.gr/oikonomia/item/59222-%CE%A3%CF%84%CE%B1-2,3-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CF%83-%CF%84%CE%BF-%CF%8D%CF%88%CE%BF%CF%82-%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD-%CE%BC%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BD-%CF%83%CF%85%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%AC%CE%BE%CE%B5%CF%89%CE%BD (sorry non hellenophones , but I can't help that it's in Greek):
Therefrom All of these pension-funds pay 2,347,173,168 € monthly in pensions to 2,952,082 pensioners in total.
After doing the division this equals to a MEAN-AVERAGE MONTHLY PENSION of 795.09€.
Note: 1I will again repeat that an average by itself isn't enough to describe accurately the distribution.
2.Cannot vouch for this site's reiliability, could't replicate it from more known news sites, so people please handle it with care and reasonable doubt.

--Continued--

so anonymos...name one country of this planet where someone can get or could get (until 2012) pension of 1350 euros net being 48 years old with cost of living similar to that of greece and efapax (one payment off) of ~40,000- 50,000 euros being a supermarket cashier.

Thank you.

P.S. Make also comparison with the bankrupt ones but not only with them.

private employee (cashier i meant)..not employer

P.P.S."...plus you did not name to me one country of this world that gives 500 euro pensions to someone that never paid anything in his/her entire life."
I don't have to.I've already answered in a different -inter alia- but equally strong way(i.e. redistribution all around the western(aand even more) world).I could even more argue that all people contribute anyway even if they don't contribute to a specific pension scheme-fund per se(e.g. indirect taxes).Which I already did for the Greek agricultural sector of the economy.

But you might anyway want to read this
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/201106/20110620ATT21867/20110620ATT21867EN.pdf
or additionally if you speak Greek this
http://www.ineobservatory.gr/sitefiles/files/meleti9.pdf

But let me also do a simple thing that for some strange reason seems that it's impossible for you (+Costas +many other people) to do;
I.e. google, do a simple search:

1.Google "pension". Whence:
2.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension Whence:
2.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension#Social_and_state_pensions and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension#Disability_pensions Whence(references 5,6):
3.www.workandincome.govt.nz/individuals/a-z-benefits/nz-superannuation.html , www.workandincome.govt.nz/manuals-and-procedures/income_support/main_benefits/new_zealand_superannuation/new_zealand_superannuation-01.htm
and
www.services.gov.za/services/content/Home/ServicesForPeople/Socialbenefits/oldagegrant/en_ZA

I don't live in any of these two countries.Their specifics elude me.I'm might even be wrong in these aforementioned cases.But being an adult that has read the required minima, I know that there are many countries in the world that directly or indirectly, in some way or another, provide some guaranteed income or benefits to its citizens, either in the form cash or (also) in food stamps, in medical care or ....
irrespectively (or on extremely low eligibility citeria, practically nothing (e.g. only being a native citizen of old age)) of whether or how much one has directly contributed to a pension or helath-care fund.
It's simply a part of redistribution in social welfare economies(that includes, as already told, even the USA).Moreover most people of very low wealth-income in many western countries (if not all) for example receive (much) more than they have payed per se in the relative pension or health care funds(a thing that corresponds to a negative tax rate in their non receiving years).
As THEY SHOULD!
Cause if they didn't they would die or live like people of the 3rd world.
Now I know and understand that many people would like to have this negated.To have us return to the glorious old age of most people living and dying in poverty if and when they couldn't provide for themselves.
Well, they better try harder or at least realise that there will be a fightback... ;-)

@nikokons@hotmail.com
Why should I do that?Do the research and work yourself.YOU have the onus probandi,the burden of proof(WITH references) to support your views whatever they may be.NOT I.
But even if I did do that it would be irrelevant by itself:
The current workforce of Greece is about 5,000,000 people;to present the situation properly, to provide the full picture(as much as possible) one must present not just some few cases, some heresay or some anecdotal "evidence" or wages-salaries of a very small subset of the workforce;one has instead to provide a distribution of wages,income,prices etc.That's what I've done or at least tried to.
You're free to try it yourself...

@Costas
A great number of people that e.g. serve or served you (in one way or another), before or after the economic crisis
(either e.g. as cleaners, as waitors, as security guards, as call-centre employees, as clerks, as builders etc etc etc),
when you are or were in Greece, are and were being paid salaries equal to, close to or even below the legally mandated minima.Even more people earn much less than the (totally out of touch with reality when presented as the norm)numbers you've claimed(just look at the next Collective-Bargain-Agreements level after the minimum).
On top of that all of the people in Greece are and were not paying e.g. consumer prices of the much lower magnitude-level of many ex Soviet Republics countries(i.e. goods, services etc are are generally much cheaper there).
Also the great majority of foreigners in Greece are-were not wealthy expats as you've claimed (or I think you did, not sure what you meant there) but poor immigrants, most of them illegal or ex post facto legalised.And while I will not comment on whether their presence here was-is good or bad, acceptable or not, the money most of them earn-earned is certainly even less than what us locals make or made(in fact some of them treated more like slaves)...
Also part-time jobs, that manyatimes are part-time only in name and as far as pay is concerned when in reality they're closer to full-time with the overtime not being paid, are manyatimes NOT by choice but instead by necessity(no other jobs available and/or employer abuse).The fact that part-time jobs exist elsewhere too is irrelevant;it doesn't change the income distribution, it only negates (as all other facts do) your baseless claim that only high unemployment matters;unemployment (high or low) certainly matters but it's certainly NOT the sole negative factor.
As far being paid from something that one has not contributed to(either supposedly or really, partially or totally, directly or indirectly):
that happens, in way or another, IN EVERY redistributive social-welfare economic system in the world including the USA.BY DEFINITION.
So please stop talking nonsense.We're not little children here to whom you can propagandise ex cathedra.To be totally clear in the specifics, the farmers that you've mentioned that indeed got or get a (ridiculously low for that matter) pension, may have not contributed to a pension fundscheme in their youth but were nevertheless some of the main,biggest contributors to our economy and exports(as Greece had been a mainly agricultural country) in the past (and still are in comparison to many other countries); but even if they weren't, a modern western state DOESN'T simply leave its citizens starve or die;it's just simple as that....
Anyway the problem(or anyway one of the problems) was that the social fund system had not yet being transformed to include them and their (oftenly long hard) work.
There were and still are certainly some abuses to the system(either generally(both in Greece and elsewhere) or refering just to these Greek farmers) but that's not a reason to use a ponaei cheri kobei cheri (cut a hand if it hurts, for the non hellenophones out there, you get the picture) kind of logic and reasoning...

So please stop spouting , especially without proper references, anecdotal evidence and/or apples and oranges arguments.
Distributions and real data matter.Analysis matters.Reason matters.Empirical evidence matters.
;-)

@Kostas
Lastly in order for people not to think that I'm evading specifics:
E.g. according to the National General Collective Bargain Contract-Agreement (GSEE) in 2011 (more specifically from July 1st 2011;before this date it had obviously been less) the montly starting (but in effect predominant) gross wage (x14) of an unmarried full time private sector clerk without previous work experience or university education, was 750.65€, id est equivalent to ~10500€ gross annually;something that's btw long lost now.

Source: http://www.gsee.gr/userfiles/file/2011_NEWS_KEIMENA/NOMIKI/29-3-2012-egsse_2010_2012.pdf (that's the official GSEE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Confederation_of_Greek_Workers) internet site and text of agreement for people not acquainted with Greek language or issues)

P.S. Btw the 2 "extra" montly wages (that accounted for the x14 multiplication of the montly wages in order to calculate annual income) have been lost for (practically) all people since 1/1/2013.Henceforth annually it's x12 ....

@kostas
No sorry you're the one that's wrong cause minimum wage != minimum guaranteed income or basic income.
See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_guarantee#Basic_Income_Movement_in_Europe

@anonymos you are wrong in many things u write..i will not comment but there is OBVIOUSLY a minimum salary that being nowadays 578 euro...was 720 few years ago..but the crisis changed it

Correction:
Sorry the proper second link I meant to provide was this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_in_Europe_by_monthly_average_wage
It's a map and table of Europe showing average wages in US$ by country.
The one I linked to is the citation on Greek data(which itself doesn't link directly to OECD data on Greece).
It's less official but it's helpful on getting a rough picture and comparison of things.

@Ash Sorry but this is a stupid question...why would u need to carry cash? assuming you want a cheap budget aim at at 40-50 euros/day for a descent hotel and 10 euros min a day to eat.

@tonia, I am postdoc at the university of athens and i receive 1350 euros net.
My gal is a teacher at a public school and she get 1180/month (net). Yes salaries have been reduced a lot but well bad or good the public sector still pays. It is mostly the private sector that has been ruined.
@Tony..you really have a problem dont you?? to waste you your time in this fora blaming collectively all people. Yes we go through bad times but I mean compared to our neighbors greece is a heaven on earth..
P.S. i have lived also in NL for six years earning ~2.1k and my purchasing power was even less than here in athens if you account for housing etc e.g. I pay 550 euros (with mygal) for 130sm2 flat/month in a good area of athens when in amsterdam i needed 1200 for 80sm2...

Hi everyone. I'm greek and i live in Athens. I'm reading some of the comments and i'm speechless for their ignorance. I work part time, usually 6 hours daily and i'm considered lucky. My salary is 400 euros per month!! Oh, and i don't have insurance. My boyfriend works for a full time job and his salary is 620 euros. And he is very lucky because he has insurance. Note that full time means more than 8 hours. I want to meet these people, with 1250 euros salary. My father has 30 years of working experience and he gets 1200 euros. My friends who work don't get more than 600 euros. Of course the ones that work are minority. And we are university graduates. Athens is expensive for Greeks.
How can you call us lazy? I'd expect more support from middle class people. Except you are all rich and eat dinner with Obama. When economic crisis hits your country and everyone blames you, remember that. Greece, Spain, Portugal are the first victims, nothing more and nothing less. Of course our politicians our corrupted and i agree that it's our fault. We elected them. We are stupid, corrupted, etc. But definitely not lazy. You see immigrants and not Greeks working because they are hired with less money- yes less than 600. They are as desperate as natives.

@Elias,

Restaurants can account for 25% of total spending (not disposable income). Some people eat both lunch and dinner in restaurants and they go out (where resturants section is counted here as well).

@Kostas

Wow, your pensions are nearly on par as some of the Western World pensions if you dont contribute in your own super.

May I ask, who was funding your pensions?

I think Greece's problem today lies within your own Government who has over inflated your prices in daily goods, borrowed money and let the country drink Moet but really could only afford home made Retsina.

Do you get my point?

Reality has hit and now you cry crocodile tears. Time to live like your neighbors and start working instead of creating phoenix companies for a Euro donation.

Im an Aussie who holidayed in Greece and I found prices expensive to what I pay in Australia. Coke for over 2 euro with water being about the same. Unfortunately I ran out of sunscrean and paid 16 euro's for 250ml for it!!!! I paid $8 for a litre in Coles here!! I even paid 4 euro's for a shitty frappe!

This is the problem with Greece, they have no exports and productivity, like to pay themselves well compared to the surrounding developing countries and borrow money from Western Governments.

prices for accommodation is ridiculous since the staff are inexperienced, rude, abnoxious & nothing on par to western countries or even Thailand yet they charge the same!

absurd.

Greek people are also lazy yet they complain but none of them want to work in summer but higher immigrants from poor neighboring countries. I only saw half naked Greek women dancing on the podium in Mykonos. I guess that is Greece's finest skills.

I live in Athens. I rent a wonderful 6year-old, second-floor apartment in the suburbs, 110sp.m. and pay 500euros per month (the owner reduced the price recently. It was 600 per month). My electricity bill is about 60 euros per month. Water is approximately 14euros/mo. Heating is more expensive since petrol price is constantly rising. Last year it was about 150/mo (for 6 months). Facility expenses in the building are 70 euros/mo.
We spend (for 2 people) 400euros/mo in the Supermarket.
Dinner at a taverna for 2 people is 40-50 euros including house-wine and desert.
A drink at a bar (whisky,vodka, etc) is usually 7.50euros.
Movie ticket is 7,00. Movie rental 2.20.

Bottom line: If you are an expat, Athens is cheap and wonderful.
If you are Greek... you have to survive on one lousy income because in each household 1 out of 2 is unemployed!

just to be accurate about the cut-off payment or so called efapax in greek...i meant 50,000-75,000 euros and not 750,000 :)

I like the discussion about ''average'' so called salaries. Truth is that in Greece we have a contrast with the rest of civilised world. Private sector pays worse than public sector. The ''average'' salary in public sector in somewhere in the area of 1200-1500 euros (at least) given 5-10 years of past employment etc. However, even if rent prices are cheap, the rest is expensive. I ve been living in Zurich with 4000 euros a month having to pay 2000 euros on a flat..For sure you have another 2000 euros to spend though..Greece's problem is corruption and unemployment, because most people have a second source of income (at least those who want to work) which they dont declare because of tax purposes.

So Greece has very low wages and are out of balance with the index Euro value hence why it is in a mess and No or very little money to pay their Workers

I have to say that the "distribution of cost of living" pie chart is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!

Who the hell spends 1/3 of their income on RESTAURANTS??!

According to this chart people are spending THREE times as much on restaurants as they are for their rent - what planet are these people living on??

A request to the site admins of NUMBEO: - please, please re-design these charts so that they reflect most people's real-life expenditures, and not just rich ex-pat tax-exiles/bankers/tycoons..etc..etc..not everyone planning to move abroad is a millionaire!

However when viewing the salary people earn on average deducting the taxes they have to pay you quickly come to the conclusion that for the locals things are expensive. Also one has to assume that the average person there has been misguided by the banks and other financial institutions that they live in a first world country so they should consume without limits (cars, luxury goods, own their own businesses, etc) however they are not. They live off the tourist trade mainly but due to the worldwide recession that is going down also ...so those people who where farmers and invested heavy into converting their land into hotels on the islands are now paying the price

I find your prices for Athens cheaper then the islands, here we have only 6 months work a year for an increasingly lower wage, more tax (with amusing names!!!) and extremely high prices for everything. I think there will be alot of people on the streets soon.

OK am I reading this right?... Everything looks so cheap.. I live in Melbourne and when i displayed everything in AUD it was way cheaper for items than it is here. Example Cigarettes, $15 here in Athens $4.85 AUD equivalent. .60c for a bottle of water compared to $3 here. It foes on and on. Rent $400 odd a month!!.. We pay that a week here. It maybe expensive for Ppl in greece as their salaries are so low. For Aussies coming to Greece is Very cheap on our salaries. Feel sorry for the Greeks!!.

@ Eleni psycho...
Are you sure you are talking about Athens? the capital of Greece??
Your comments are so much out of reality.. Unless you have been living in a particular district and have some particularly very bad experiences which are deffinetely not the standard?

Athens is an expensive chaotic hell with cheap people.Terror,crime,leftism nevrosis,self distructed driving narcisistic provincialism and miserable idiotism.

Hi George,

Believe me that Athens is an expensive city if you take in consideration that the large majority of salaries in private sector are really low. The average comes to 900 eur per month. The basic salary for a new employee is 700 eur. This is something that neither IMF nor EU can understand. They also ask for salary reductions. This is ridiculous.

I would like also to confirm that the site is very well updated...

Greece, the most expensive country in EU by far with no quality services!!!!!